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organize:talkingpoints [2014/01/06 16:35] – [victims of surveillance] nivatius42organize:talkingpoints [2014/09/23 13:05] – [Child abuse] 127.0.0.1
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 ======= general concerns ====== ======= general concerns ======
  
-The most common arguments against privacy and the use of good crypto are often called the "[[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Horsemen_of_the_Infocalypse|Four Horsemen of the infocaypse]]" +The most common arguments against privacy and the use of good crypto are often called the "[[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Horsemen_of_the_Infocalypse|Four Horsemen of the infocalypse]]" They are not rational arguments, rather they play on the fears that people have.
-Because the are not rational arguments but playing with the fear of people.+
  
 =====Nothing to hide ===== =====Nothing to hide =====
->**logical fallacies**: good people have nothing to fear, I don't need privacy,only bad people hide things,I don't need to encrypt \\+**logical fallacies**: 
 +> good people have nothing to fear 
 +> I don't need privacy 
 +> only bad people hide things 
 +> I don't need to encrypt \\
  
 ====Argumentations==== ====Argumentations====
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 **Accusation**: privacy and crypto enable child abuse \\  **Accusation**: privacy and crypto enable child abuse \\ 
 **logical fallacy**: surveillance stops child abuse \\  **logical fallacy**: surveillance stops child abuse \\ 
-**truth**: police needs tools like Tor to find people that spread images of child abuse.+**truth**: abuse of children or other people is a psychological result of the abuser having been disempowered; surveillance and the irrational belief that policing can prevent abuse are further causes of disempowerment; they contribute to turning people into abusers.
  
 ==== crime in general ==== ==== crime in general ====
-Accusation: privacy,  and crypto enable crimes +**Accusation**: privacy,  and crypto enable crimes 
-logical fallacy: surveillance stops crimes and helps to find criminals, if we just had enough surveillance there would be no crime+**logical fallacies**: 
 +>surveillance stops crimes and helps to find criminals 
 +> if we just had enough surveillance there would be no crime
  
 ====== files,facts and data ===== ====== files,facts and data =====
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 constitions: of europe, America constitions: of europe, America
  
-please add links to material like studies that show that data-retention is useless, the cost of surveillance, examples of innocent beeing spyed on ect.+please add links to material like studies that show that data-retention is useless, the cost of surveillance, examples of innocent beeing spyed on etc.
   * [[http://wiki.vorratsdatenspeicherung.de/%C3%9Cbersetzung/English/Pros_and_cons|arguments against dataretention]]   * [[http://wiki.vorratsdatenspeicherung.de/%C3%9Cbersetzung/English/Pros_and_cons|arguments against dataretention]]
 ===== victims of surveillance ===== ===== victims of surveillance =====